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Explore an in-depth conversation between Andrew Kelley, creator of the Zig Programming Language, and Jeroen Engels, author of Elm-review, as they delve into the world of programming languages and linters. Discover insights on refactoring challenges with custom macros, the need for improved refactoring tools, and compiler integration. Learn about the importance of error codes versus warning codes in linters, handling potentially null values, and the tradeoffs of linting errors. Gain understanding on the viability of separate linting steps from compilation, the significance of enforcing linting in continuous integration processes, and the necessity for programmers to create functions without side effects. This 40-minute interview, recorded for GOTO Unscripted at GOTO Copenhagen, offers valuable perspectives on modern programming practices and tool development.