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Explore the importance of embracing complexity in addressing systemic challenges through this insightful podcast episode featuring David Krakauer, President of the Santa Fe Institute. Delve into how simple models and narratives can fall short when dealing with complex issues like COVID-19 transmission rates and systemic health problems. Discover how understanding systems can lead to more effective interventions in various fields, from conservation strategies to economic policies. Learn about the value of viewing society as multi-scale and networked, and how this perspective can prevent significant costs. Gain insights into topics such as radical uncertainty, human motivation, and the application of historical lessons to current challenges. This episode, part of the COMPLEXITY podcast's Transmission series on COVID-19, offers a thought-provoking discussion on the intersection of complexity science with real-world problems, providing valuable perspectives for researchers, policymakers, and anyone interested in tackling complex societal issues.